Organic or local and seasonal not to mention sustainable

[jeral Profile]

Interesting Badger's Mate. I too wondered when unbleached came into fashion if everything in supermarkets was newly deliberately made off-white to show visibly that it wasn't bleached to match the claim on the label.

Not adding much to the conversation, but good to know there are answers to "I've always wondered why".

[miss mouse Profile]

1995.

A random search came up with this

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-bleached-f ... -K?share=1

[Badger's Mate Profile]

So this starts to make sense. Roller-milled white flour has lost most of the brown stuff through the rolling process and goes white with exposure to air. Stoneground might well contain fine particulate brown stuff that passes through their sieves, keeping it beige. To make this acceptable for the purchaser they call it unbleached white, which is true but irrelevant. It worked for me...

Sort of similarly, going back to organic eggs, the producers add the term free-range which, although true, is a necessary part of their organic certification, and hence to an extent tautological. However they reasonably feel that the consumer might not be aware of it.

[Alexandria Profile]

Badger Mate,

Thank you for your lovely Holiday Greetings.

All my best to you and your dear ones ..

[karadekoolaid Profile]

Now there's a question for a third-world country.
When I buy food for home?business, I go to the local Farmer markets and make sure my veg are fresh, shiny, and new. Are they organic? I have absolutely no idea. Are they local? Probably not, because not all areas of the country produce. Are they seasonal? Most items don't have a season, because we're tropical.
Are they sustainable?

At the moment, it's a miracle if you can actually FIND the product, and with 1,000% inflation (and rising) give a monkey's whether the product is sustainable or not. Seriously - availability is the first priority!

[Joanbunting Profile]

Hi Clive.

Lovely to "see" you. I know a lot of us have been wondering how you are yours are doing.

Of course the question I posted is predicated on availabilty. Tragically, in far too many places in the world the question these days is "Is there any food?"

For those of us who have the utter luxury of having a choice we must stop and think how we can improve the situation for others who are not in that fortunate position. i suppose sustainable and equitable is a start but that only works if others don't do wicked, foolish and greedy things.

All the very best to you for Christmas and 2018.

[strictlysalsaclare Profile]

Welcome back from me too KKA, we have missed your posts

[Gillthepainter Profile Website]

Howdy Clive.

What do you mean most items don't have a season because we're tropical? please.

[karadekoolaid Profile]

That's right, Gill.
Tomatoes, onions, potatoes, aubergines, lettuce, beans = all year round.
The only things I can think of as "seasonal" are mangoes, which appear from April through to September.

[Alexandria Profile]

@Karadekoolaide,

Merry Christmas and a healthy, successful and happy new year ahead ..

Nice to see you online here once again ..

Just a word to the wise, do not purchase shiny veggies and moreover, never shiny apples .. The glossy liquid coating used on these apples and vegetables is a Genetic Modified Chemical ..

It is cancerous and extremely harmful ..

All my best ..

[Pampy Profile]

I would have thought that if the coating caused cancer, it would not be approved for use with foodstuffs. Whilst I completely understand some peoples objections to GM foods, I do think that some claims that are made about them are unfounded.

[strictlysalsaclare Profile]

I am in agreement with Pampy about the shiny coating on some fruits and veggies. I thought it was a type of wax that was used, and although not harmful, some people would prefer not to eat it, hence there being an option with some fruits and veg.

The thing is, the genetic modification of plants has been going on for centuries. Any time say, a new hybrid of cultivated flower is launched, the nurserymen and women have been carrying out genetic modification to make that plant resistant to pests, diseases or prolong it's flowering time where necessary (roses for example). It's the same with things like making tomatoes or spuds less resistant to blight, and leafy veg such as spinach more bolt-hardy .

I can't help thinking that some of this GMO stuff is scaremongering on the media or internet's part, or other influences.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

the glossy liquid coating used on these apples and vegetables is a Genetic Modified Chemical ..

Having grown up (literally) in an orchard I know some varieties of apple are naturally shiny

The coating (I looked this up recently) is of course not GMO, how or why would it be? GM is used to create new plants or animals and nobody would bother to create new plants for this. Fruit glaze is a fairly simple chemical mixture; it's not usually technically wax either these days though can be. It's known as a glaze. I suppose some of the chemicals could be derived from corn cobs, which in some countries might be GMO... but it's tenuous and wouldn't affect the consumer as the product used would be an almost pure sugar or alcohol.

Most water based glazes are completely harmless, things like carnauba, a natural palm wax that is used in lip balm, you swallow more from that I suspect. Also sugars and resins.

However there was a bit of a public fight as a substance called morpholine is a component of glazes used in Chile, USA & Canada but is banned in the EU so every so often a load of Chilean fruit is banned from entry into the EU. It seems to be questionable as to whether the amount remaining on treated fruit is harmful to consumers, but I read the official safety data card, and I think there's a good case for banning it from agricultural use as it could be quite nasty for workers handling bulk quantities without good health and safety precautions

It's quite difficult to buy unwaxed citrus in the UK, and it doesn't keep well. I do wash the glaze off before zesting, I rub in one drop of unscented washing up liquid and warm water, rinsed well, you can actually feel the difference in the texture of the skin surface after washing, and it zests more easily. As glaze tends not to be water soluble, water alone won't remove the coating.

Edited to remove typos

[strictlysalsaclare Profile]

Hi Stokey Sue

Thank you for your insightful knowledge once again. It did confirm my gut instinct, as well as Pampy's no doubt. As I've said before, your scientific knowledge is so useful on this forum.

[jeral Profile]

All the things I've read on GMO seem to say it's safe if sold as food, but is terrible environmentally by contamination from spreading or wind drift.

As to apples, I always peel them (always have actually) but I read that a pesticide used could permeate and couldn't be washed off, As Stokey Sue said, as far as I know, glazes can be removed with washing up liquid - but I'd still peel apples.

[Stokey Sue Profile]

All the things I've read on GMO seem to say it's safe if sold as food, but is terrible environmentally by contamination from spreading or wind drift.

As to apples, I always peel them (always have actually) but I read that a pesticide used could permeate and couldn't be washed off, As Stokey Sue said, as far as I know, glazes can be removed with washing up liquid - but I'd still peel apples.

Yes, it's the escape of organisms with unknown effects on ecology that worries me with GMO, eating the stuff is not necessarily a problem. Look at where you find stray plants of (non GMO but non-native) oil seed rape, miles from the nearest far just shows how plants can bed inm,

When you think about how you garden (or conduct agriculture) most pesticides are applied after pollination but before ripening, most say on the package to leave 3 - 6 weeks between application and harvest, so any residue pretty much must be inside the fruit.

[jeral Profile]

If we talk ecology, I'm also completely amazed that Round-Up weed killer is still sold (under various brand names) since it kills off bugs and everything - except what it doesn't - Day of the Triffids anyone?

The problem of course is that there's no going back environmentally once the genie is out of the bottle. It's not as if the people in charge don't know that as there are plenty of examples of non-native species taking over in all parts of the world with little chance of eradicating them to allow a natural ecology to even survive let alone prevail. Hopefully the penny will drop before it's too late.

[miss mouse Profile]

All the things I've read on GMO seem to say it's safe if sold as food,

Well Monsanto would say that. Possibly, I don't know, but radiation and Thalidomide and so many more things were declared safe.



"but is terrible environmentally by contamination from spreading or wind drift."

Canada has been muttering about the superweeds, evolutions resistant to Roundup which have been staggering Triffid like across the Prairies for years.

What about the chlorine soaked chickens and eggs? The BGH beef? The hormone milk? The antibiotic stuffed pigs (they make the pigs put on more weight by interfering with the intestinal absorption).

This stuff is a far cry from patient breeders selecting their animals or plants.

Monsanto controls most of it. The rest is run by Big Agri bizz. Fixed wheat prices, oh I wonder who runs that.

I am deeply suspicious. These are not people who fund donkey sanctuaries and help old ladies across the road.

[miss mouse Profile]

Hopefully the penny will drop before it's too late.

What? When there is money to be made? Isn't profit king?

[jeral Profile]

There's an expression: "A mistake is evidence that someone tried to do something."

I think that about GM. There's nothing wrong with the principle (25 years ago) of finding ways to make crops hardier, avoiding weather-related crop failures and subsequent famines and with a growing world population...

20-20 hindsight knowledge is wonderful, unless you happen to be a company whose back is against the wall (against being sued). The problem is, it's still a laudable ambition - all TPTB have to do is ignore the ramifications. Needless to say, I'd say at our peril.